“20 Minutes of Successful Niche Secrets – EPISODE 20”,

Where I Interview Ian Szabo of "Fix & Flip" and "Renos to Riches"

“PODCAST – EPISODE 20,” From Chef To Fix And Flip Expert – Ian Szabo, Author Of “Fix & Flip” And “Renos To Riches”

Glenn: Hi! It’s Glenn McQueenie, and thanks for joining me for another podcast called the 25-Minute Success Series Podcast. And today I’m pretty stoked to have a good friend of mine, Ian Szabo, join us. Ian, how are you doing today?

Ian: I’m doing great. Thank you so much for having me, Glenn.

Glenn: Great! Well I’ve just got a lot of respect and admiration for what you did, because I think you’ve really created a very spectacular niche. And I think by definition, a niche isn’t a commodity. And you’ve just struck this one niche in the marketplace that’s enabled you to probably charge more commission than other agents do, and really eliminate all of your competition. So just as we get started here, let me just give some background on Ian. Ian Szabo is with Keller Williams Energy. He works out of the Whitby office, and he’s also the author of a really, really great book that I would highly recommend everyone get or give copies to their clients, and the book’s called “From Renos to Riches: The Canadian Real Estate Investor’s Guide to Practical and Profitable Renovations.” And it’s a great book. I’ve read it. I’m actually pretty lucky because I even have a signed copy from Ian, because he’s a really big deal.

Ian: No, man. No.

Glenn: So tell me, what was the background? I know you were on TV actually quite a bit doing a lot of those reno shows, doing your book, and then you really moved into this one niche. So for our listeners, can you just give us a little background of where you were, and where you are today?


Ian: Sure. Yeah, I started out doing some basic renovations, mostly painting, and then we got picked up at a trade show for HD TV. They hired us to do some on-air and off-air work, and it just spiralled into 10 different shows and a whole bunch of episodes. And I realized very quickly as a general contractor and doing the TV stuff that I was working really hard, and really not making the money I thought I should be making, so I started flipping houses. And then when I started flipping houses, I leaned on some of the realtors to help me in the beginning, and they were saying, “Do black lamp shades and put this light there and this light there,” and I’m thinking, as a renovator, “This doesn’t make sense” and “I don’t understand.” And to be honest, the first five flips that I did, I failed at. I almost went bankrupt, to be honest with you. And you can only go back to your wife and tell her so many times, “We can’t pay our mortgage.” So I really dug down deep and started analyzing what the business was about and how I could flip houses for profit. And I used to be a chef, so I actually started applying all of the organizational models as a chef to renovations, which has never really been done before. Because I couldn’t understand how, as a chef, I’m dealing with raw products that go rotten, and contractors are dealing with the stuff that doesn’t go rotten, and they couldn’t get stuff done on time. And then it spiralled into me doing one flip a year, two flips a year, 10 flips a year, 14-15 flips a year. And then my clients, as a general contractor, started investing funds into me to do more flips, and then I decided to get my real estate license.

Glenn: Wow. And then once you got into real estate, instead of being the generalist agent that many of the agents enter this business as, you really brought your natural strengths already, and your whole “Find, fix, flip” mentality and experience. And I think you created a program called “Your Money, My Flip.” Is that what it was called?

Ian: Yeah, it came about as a pain, to be honest with you. I kept going to houses and people were like, “Well, I can’t afford to do this renovation.” And I said, “If you only did this, you’d get an extra $50,000. If you did that, you’d get an extra $100,000.” And they’re like, “Well I don’t know how to do that and I don’t have the money to do that.” So I started lending funds out through third-party renovations, and I would basically design their whole flip for them, and say, “Okay, we’re going to paint this colour in this room and this floor for that.” And before I knew it, I was getting calls from my ideal clients saying, “I want the same thing you did for my friend down the street, because they made an extra $100,000” or “They made an extra $50,000.” And it was really interesting, because it’s almost like I scratched an itch that I had for so long. Back in the day when I was flipping, I wanted my realtor to say, “Ian, this is exactly what you need to do to make the most amount of money.” And I created that whole system out of pain, and then I started offering it to my clients. And to be honest, I started out as the cliché realtor, with the nice suits and the fancy shoes. And to be quite honest – that’s just not me. I’m more of a jeans, plaid shirt and Adidas kind of guy. So I went down the normal route of being a realtor, and then I realized that’s not me, and I don’t like that guy. I need to be Ian the reno guy, or the flip guy. And once I accepted the fact that I wasn’t the flashy, fancy realtor guy with the expensive sports car, and went back to my truck and started doing what was more in line with me and what I believe in, that’s when the doors opened up and people started coming to me.

Glenn: It’s always amazing, I find, with realtors who’ll go to a training course and they’ll say, “Well, you’ve got to cold call and prospect three hours a day, and that’s the only way you’ll get successful.” Or you go to another class, and they’re like, “No, you’ve got to do this.” And then they go and try this. And I find so many of them get frustrated because they’re trying to be somebody else. And if they could only realize that if you just be yourself (everyone else is already taken) and do what you love to do with clients that you love to do it with, you’re going to be a lot happier, and the marketplace opens up for you. Wouldn’t you agree?

Ian: Yeah, it’s almost like the universe says, “Okay, this guy’s going to get what he deserves now.” It’s taking that leap of faith and just jumping out and saying, “This is who I am. This is what I do. And I’m not here to impress anyone or try to convince you to work with me. This is what I do, and this is what I do very well. And if you like it, great. And if you don’t, I’m moving on to the next one.” So it goes against the old school realtor mentality: take all the listings you can and be the man and do as much as you can. And I’m the exact opposite: if you fit these small criteria, I will blow your socks off. If you don’t, I can’t really help you, because I’m going to let you down. And I’m going to let myself down, which is more important.

Glenn: That’s amazing. So tell me, what was the next evolution? I remember you told me a story once about how there were two semis, and I think you had sold one for a high price. Just tell the audience that story, because it’s such a great one.

Ian: Absolutely. I do some running, and I met someone at The Running Room, and he said he wanted to list his house for sale. And he called me a year later, and he had a couple realtors in, and they were saying, “We want to do hardwood floors” and “We want to do this” and “We want to do that,” and he called me, and I came in and I said, “This is exactly what I would do: this type of flooring, this paint colour, move this around, my designer’s going to do this, this and this, and I think you’ll get $60,000 more than you’re expecting.” And the funny thing was, I knew that the manager of the running store actually went to my brokerage because he thought I was full of crap, and he said, “Is this guy actually registered at your brokerage? Because I know him and I trust him, but it just sounds way too good to be true.” They’re like, “No, he works here. This is his office.” So he called me back and he did the best thing he possibly could do. He said, “Here are the keys to my house. You said our budget’s $12,000?” I said, “Yep.” He said, “Okay. Go for it.” And we did it, and the average sale prices in Bowmanville (this was a couple years ago), but the average price was around $300,000. They got $362,000, and he was delighted – didn’t have to do any work, didn’t have to clean up, didn’t have to make any decisions. Everything was just done. I said, “Just listen to us. We’re going to tell you what to do.” And he’s like, “This is awesome.” And then it was funny because his next door neighbour was this big truck driver guy – scary dude with some big dogs  (Rottweilers and stuff). And he was going to list his house. So I’m banging on his door, saying, “Hey, give me a chance.” He wouldn’t talk to me. He wouldn’t answer the door. He was like, “Yeah, whatever, dude. Get out of here.” So he lists his house for sale two weeks later with a different realtor. They listed it for I think it was $295,000. They got one offer at $305,000. They freaked out. They fired the agent. They called me. I went in, I said, “Here’s the deal. You’ve got to listen to what I’m saying. This is what we’re going to do.” He’s like, “I don’t trust you realtors. This damn taupe! I don’t want to see everything as taupe. I hate it. We got red colours, and hockey pictures, and all kinds of stuff.” And I’m like, “Dude, I don’t like taupe either. But look – that’s what people want. Let’s just give them what they want.” He’s like, “I’m telling you,” and he’s looking right at me, he goes, “I’m telling you, if you screw this up, I’m coming after you.” I said, “Look. You’re going to get this done. You’re going to be happy.” So we did. We spent $6,000. We did all the work, we listed it, and we sold it for I think $375,000. So I think they made $65,000 more two weeks later. And he did this good promo video of swearing at me and all kinds of stuff. But it goes back to what you believe in, Glenn. And it’s: go all in on your skills – on your genius, and don’t worry about the rest of the stuff. And I think once I finally trusted the fact that this is my path, and I went all in on it – it’s surreal how it unfolds.

Glenn: It’s truly incredible. And what I’d love for you to share, too, is you don’t do this at the average commission. You actually make more commission than any other realtor because this is your value proposition: you’re making them more money, and you expect to get paid more money, too, right?

Ian: Absolutely – 7-9% commission is not unheard of. There are also bonus structures that are set up through my agreements. I’ve had people that say, “Yeah, I don’t believe you. I think you’re full of crap. You’re not going to get over $500,000.” And I said, “Okay, will you split the difference with me?” And then the agreement’s got to change, right? They’re like, “What do you mean?” I’m willing to put my money where my mouth is. I’m willing to jump in. And I think if you interview 100 consumers, 80% of them are going to say realtors don’t do enough and they get way too much money. So I do the opposite. I’m willing to put my own money in to get that ultimate achievement. And it goes a long way, I think. People appreciate it.

Glenn: Yeah. Not only are you the expert at doing this, because you’ve done so many flips before, but you know exactly what the consumer needs, what is hot in the market, and what people are looking for in the market. What I love about you is you can almost do the minimum effective dose on a house in order to get the maximum effective money and the biggest profit for the seller. And to me, it’s just a winning formula, and I think that’s where a lot of your confidence comes from.

Ian: It does. And I know it so well. Before, I used to bite my tongue and say, “Oh, I don’t know if I’m going to say that – I may look like an idiot, or they might think that they don’t have the money to do it.” And now I just say it the way it is: “Your house is great, but you need to do this, this, and this.” And you don’t get the confidence unless you put the hours in, and you’ve fallen on your face, and you’ve scraped your knuckles, and you’ve lost money, and you’ve screwed up renovations. And that’s the only way that you’re going to really learn – wing it. I learned how to renovate in my basement. I was a chef at the time, and after 12-hour shifts, I’d figure out how to renovate. And that’s how I learned how to do everything.

Glenn: And I love your point there when you say a lot of the consumers think that we don’t do enough and that they pay us too much money. I think a lot of realtors lose sight of that – that a lot of their consumers are working all year for maybe 40, 50, 60, 70, 30, 100 – a family income of maybe $80,000 or $100,000, and we waltz into their life and waltz out in a week, sell their house for $400,000, and they’re stuck with a $20,000 commission. And that’s, to them, a quarter of their annual income that they’ve had to give you in that one week. And I think part of the reason I did the book, “The McQueenie Method,” and love what you do, is basically every party I’m at, someone’s getting their real estate license or someone just told me they got their real estate license. It’s not like they need more of us. They probably need less of us. But what the consumer’s really begging for, I think, is more value. And I think we’re going to shoot ourselves in the foot, as an industry, if we don’t start adding way more value upfront to justify the commissions that we’re being paid.

Ian: No, I agree 100%, and that’s the reason I actually got in the business, because I’m thinking to myself, “I’m paying all this money for commission” when I was doing flips back in the day, and it just didn’t make sense. And it evolved into this different beast where I’ll have investment clients that say, “I want to purchase rental property.” I’m like, “Do you know how to do the renovations?” “Well, no, I’m just going to hire someone.” So renovations are such an important key in what we do. It’s hundreds of thousands of dollars that can go either way, and I just saw this niche in the middle where you had someone that was controlling the whole thing from the top down: “This is what the market will allow. This is what you need to do,” and it was really cool. And actually, it’s not even about the money for me. Technically, I don’t need to be a realtor. I choose to be one, and the reason I choose to be one is it gives me more options to help the underdog. It gives me more options to help the people. I wrote “Renos to Riches” to help people. I wrote “Fix and Flip” with Mark Loeffler to help people learn how to do it. And getting my license, which a lot of people in the industry thought was a ridiculous move – “You’re going back” – gave me access to more face-to-face with people that actually need the knowledge. If you’re an investor (and I used to charge $15,000 for a course), they would come out and learn. Great. The investor would get richer. What about the homeowner that can’t afford the $15,000 to pay? What if I gave them all of that information and we worked out a deal together, and I gave them everything I knew, and I worked hand-in-hand with them, and they could make the most amount of money? The most remarkable thing for me was, the family with the semi with the truck driver moved to, I think, Nova Scotia, and they said that extra $60,000 is going to put their daughter through college. She can take dance now. They can go to Disney. They can buy the snowmobiles and the toys that they wanted to buy. And that big biker dude that was 200 and something pounds that I was scared of was almost in tears and hugging me and thanking me. Giving somebody that gift is more important to me in my heart than the money is, to be honest.

Glenn: I love what you just said there. And it’s so true because you’re the difference-maker in their lives. You’re the one who’s basically saying, “I’ll keep you safe through this. You’re not going to get ripped off with the bad contractors. I’ll tell you exactly what you do. No, you don’t need to spend that much money. I’m committed to making you as much money as possible, so that you can live the life that you really want.” And I love the fact that you basically paid for someone’s daughter’s university education, who might not have been able to go there if they were still staying here and living in their house in Bowmanville, or even anywhere in the Greater Toronto Area, because it’s just so expensive to live, right?

Ian: And I think people see that, and that’s the difference. When your heart’s in it, and you really believe it and you mean it – people can feel it, and they see it. And there’s no doubt that you’re on the right path.

Glenn: Wow. And I’ll guarantee it that if someone said to them, “Oh, all realtors are overpaid. They don’t do much for their money.” What do you think they’re going to say?

Ian: Actually, it’s funny, because they say, “Oh, call Ian. Call Ian.” It’s not even really a competition anymore, because you go in there and you’re offering all these things. The first guy, he’s like, “I don’t believe this. This doesn’t make any sense. Why would you do all this stuff?” You’re really separating yourself and you’re really putting yourself in a different category and saying, “Well how can I not go with him?”

Glenn: Yeah. It’s funny, though, as niches, how the riches really just exist there. It’s crazy. Tell the listeners how you lead-generate. So you actually usually get referred to somebody, and then you start work, so tell me about that process. Once you get the referral, you get the property listed and the commitment to do it. What’s your next step?

Ian: So if I can just go back a bit? Do you mind? The lead-gen is a little bit different. I probably shouldn’t be saying this, so I’m going to say it anyways. I realized quickly that sending out flyers – people just threw that stuff out in the garbage. And quite honestly, I’m good at door-knocking, but a lot of people don’t want to see realtors. There’s really no value added, knocking on your door, “Hey. You want to sell this? This is what your house will sell for.” And I agree, it works, but it’s just not my style. So what I started doing is, I have dump trailers for my construction business, and on the side of the dump trailers, it says, “Does your realtor haul your garbage away for free?” Because the first thing that happens when you go to list your house, number one, is, “How much is my house worth?” (These are the questions from the homeowner). “What is my house worth with renovations? And how do I get rid of all this crap that’s in my garage and my wife’s nagging me about?” So what I do is I drop off the dumpsters. I have a crew, I drive the dumpsters around, and say, “This neighbourhood’s been good to us. Do you guys have any garbage you want to get rid of? We’ve got free dumpsters for that. Here’s a free contest on how to get a free dumpster. Text us and we’ll send you a free dumpster for the week.” Because it’s going back to the value added. I’m giving you something (free garbage removal). “Why would you want to give me free garbage removal?” “Well, you need to get rid of your garbage before you sell your house.” And it gives me an opportunity to actually talk to the homeowner face-to-face while I’m carrying their garbage out of the house. And it’s like, “Well what do you mean? You’re a realtor. Why are you carrying people’s garbage around?” “Well the first thing you need to get rid of is all that crap you have in your house that you don’t want, so why don’t I give you a free dumpster?” And it works, because I’m telling you – people run down the street to throw their garbage in there. I don’t know why. If I’m giving away free Tim Hortons coffees and donuts to the kids and stuff, it’s like, “Well why would you do this?” I said, “I can spend $1000 a month and send you flyers you’re going to throw in the recycling bin, or I can spend $1000 a month and get rid of all the crap your wife’s been nagging you about. How does that sound?” They’re like, “Yeah, please come back.” And it gives me an opportunity to have a conversation instead of saying, “Hey, I’m your local realtor. Would you like to sell?” And they’re like, “No, get out of here.” So the first step is, I try to approach them as a human, giving respect. And then once I get in with the referral, it’s pretty easy. I go in, I say, “This is what I think you need to do. This is your rough budget. If you’re interested in working with me, let’s sign up an agreement. I’ll have my designer come in, and we’ll do a full-fledged plan, and we’ll give you a couple options to help you.”

Glenn: I love it. It’s so genius, Ian, what you’re doing, because you’ve actually created this very unique process. Because I’ll guarantee you, the people listening right now are not going to be renting dumpsters for free and dropping them on a street, right? They’re just like, “That’s crazy.” So you created that. Secondly, you did this thing that makes you such a great realtor and asset to our real estate community: you went first and added value, and you came from contribution to those clients before you ever expected them to do anything for you. And then the third visual I have is an entire neighbourhood walking down the street with their garbage and their junk and throwing it in, and you standing there with coffees, and them all going, “Thank you, Ian. Thank you.” That’s so awesome.

Ian: Yeah. Different than slamming the door, saying, “Realtor, beat it,” right? “Thanks for taking my mattress full of pee away, because it really stinks and I don’t want it. Thank you. Thanks for the free coffee and the sprinkle donuts for my little daughter. I appreciate that.” We’ve done it before where we do eavestrough cleaning (like the bungalows), where I have a crew of guys who walk around and say, “Does your realtor clean out your eavestroughs?” And they go out, and they clean eavestroughs. And I can spend $1000 a month, or I can come and add value to your life. And now that I see it the way it is, it’s almost like I’m bridging the gap between sales guy and friend. My mission in life is to give you hope – with my bus and everything else I do – my mission in life is to give you hope and to help you. And if I have to spend money on advertising, I would rather do it to benefit you, than to put it in the landfill.

Glenn: That’s so amazing.

Ian: And you can’t lie about that, right? It’s either there or not there. So it works well.

Glenn: Yeah. Well, you created this unique lead-generation machine, really. You came from contribution, created a unique process, and delivered what you said you were going to do, when you said you were going to do it, in the way you said you were going to do it. You exceeded their expectations. And I think you’re not only building a big tribe of friends; I think you’re really building a tribe of raving fans, right? They’re like, “Call Ian!”

Ian: It’s so true. And the interesting thing about it is, in a neighbourhood that I work in a lot, there’s a family that’s in need, and they have some kids that are disabled, and it’s not a good situation. And we went there and we cleaned out all the garbage, and we did some renos. And this is just in me; this is just the way I am. We’re doing this thing in my area where I’m launching a free reno. We’re looking for somebody that’s in need, that desperately needs it – whether it’s a bad situation, someone lost a job, there’s been injuries – and I’m going to donate all my commission and the reno money. And we’re just going to give back, and we’re just going to do it to help them. And I think that that’s important. I’m in a position where I have all these tools that I can do this, and it just fits my model of what I’m doing. I’m really proud that I’ve been successful enough to be able to do that, and to give back in the community and not expect anything in return. Good people need breaks once in awhile. I’ve had them, and I’m just grateful I’m able to give them.

Glenn: Yeah. It’s so refreshing talking to you, Ian, because so many agents come from this whole scarcity mindset: “I’m not going to do anything until my client does something.” “If you don’t sign a Buyer Agency Agreement, I’m not going to show you a house.” “If you don’t sign in (at those stupid Open House registries) and show me your ID (because I’ve got to protect the seller’s contents because the seller asks for it – which never happens), then I’m not going to do anything.” In an industry where you have all of those people – guess what? They’re also the people who are not doing the production. And because they’re so scarce, they’re like, “Oh, everyone’s ripped me off in my life before, so I’m never going to do anything unless it’s a sure thing.” To hear you say that, “I’m just going to show up in excellence, as an expert, doing what I do, coming from contribution, and giving back at a really high level.” I love what you just said there, about, “Now we’re going to do it for a family in the neighbourhood who really needs it, because that’s the right thing to do,” and it’s what you believe in. And because you’ve helped so many people, isn’t it funny how so many people help you back? And when you take care of so many other people’s needs and make them wealthy, how, in turn, they just reciprocate and make you wealthy? And then that gives you more abundance where you can now go back and help change some lives in your community. I mean, I think it’s just awesome.

Ian: It’s the best gift ever. For me, it took awhile to believe and to work on my confidence to be able to say, “Hey, I am the reno guy. I am the guy that can show up in Adidas and plaid shirts and still get 8% when everyone else needs suits and a Lexus to get them done.” It was a lot to get over that, but it’s even better. You hit the nail on the head, where it’s like, now I’ve fully committed to that, and actually go out and do it, and have all these soldiers saying, “Ian’s doing this,” and “Ian’s doing that.” And I’m really not doing anything I haven’t normally done for the last 15 years. The interesting thing is, I’ve helped so many millionaires make more millions of dollars (investors, teaching them how to do it), but I get more gratification helping the guy that wants to sell his house for half a million dollars and make an extra $100,000, because I know they wouldn’t get that anywhere else. And that’s what I enjoy.

Glenn: Yeah, and you’re the difference-maker. So what are your plans? If there are people listening, and they were like, “You know what Ian? I love what you’re doing. I love your movement that you’re creating, and I’d love to bring this to my community in Ontario” or something. Is that something you might be open to having a conversation about? Is that on your plan or your radar at all?

Ian: Yeah, I’d definitely be open to having a conversation about it. I think I’m at a point now where I’m not as much of a control freak and hands-on as I used to be. Now, to be honest, I’m able to see that the gift that I have is controlling the actual product, and not having to do every single thing of the transaction. So I’m definitely looking in Toronto, and I have some friends that have brokerages in Edmonton in Alberta. I’ve talked to them about it, but I’m not 100% sure, to be honest, how to structure it. But I love what I’m doing so much, I definitely want more people to know about it and experience it.

Glenn: Yeah. Well I don’t usually plug things on this call, but I know you come from some massive contribution, so I’m happy to help you in any way. But the people on this call can probably start by getting your book, “From Renos to Riches” by Ian Szabo. And I think I’ve got your email here. I think it’s ianszabo@theianszaboteam.ca. So they could reach out to you. And this isn’t like, “Hey, I want to come copy all your systems.” This is like, “You know, I love what you do. I love the cause that you’re doing, and maybe we could even partner and change even more lives together.” Because I just love what you’re doing in this niche, and just the whole way you’ve created it, too. It’s like, “Well, first of all, I was a chef. And then I started doing renos, and then I failed all the time – but I got better at it. And I started doing more and more renos, and I was on a lot of TV shows.” And it’s so interesting, because a lot of the people who are listeners will watch people on TV and they’ll go, “Boy, they must be doing really well.” And it’s like, “No. There’s a little difference between becoming rich and famous.” You can be famous on that TV show; or you can be rich and do it yourself off the TV show.

Ian: It’s so true. And I still get calls from production companies to do TV shows, and to be quite honest, I’m done with it, because I have a better impact on my own than the perceived value that’s on TV. It’s a great platform – it’s just not for me.

Glenn: Yeah. Well I think TV is also entertainment, right? It’s, “Okay. It’s 22 minutes of entertainment. We’ll add some commercials in there.” And then people go, “Oh, and what’s the next show coming on?” or “I’ll go watch Netflix.” I think what you’re really doing is being that difference-maker and just bringing your skills. You failed forward, you got better at it, you flipped a lot, you mastered it, and then you said, “You know what? My realtors aren’t adding any value, so I’ll go get my real estate license. And then I can combine both of those, and create such a massive value package that when I say to one of my sellers, ‘Yeah, my commission’s going to be 8%. Then I’ll pay two and a half to the co-operating,’ they’re like, ‘Yeah, sure Ian. That’s great.’”

Ian: Well I think the funniest thing for me is that I’m not really good at studying. And I had two books, and I failed my real estate test so many times – honestly, like five or six times. I’m just not good at it. And I remember being in class and I had tutors and I had everyone, and I’m like, “This is brutal.” And my wife and my kids are like, “Oh, please pass your test. Daddy’s miserable if he doesn’t pass his test.” And I remember my kid going, “Can you sign the book?” And I’m like, “Can you shut up? I don’t want anyone to know I have any books. I can’t even pass this test. Never mind. I’m not signing no books. Don’t tell anybody.” And he’s like, “Oh, can I get a book? Can I get a book?” And I’m just like, “Oh my God. I can’t even pass my real estate test.” So it’s so funny. I have these two books that they want signed and I can’t even pass my test. It sounds just kind of ironic.

Glenn: That’s so awesome. Well, Ian, thank you so much. I’m so grateful that you took time just to share this on my podcast series. And just kudos to you for what you’re doing and just going out there and helping all these people at such a high level. And again, for the listeners – I don’t want to keep plugging this – but a niche market is about finding what you’re good at and bringing it to a market of people who want to do it, and creating a unique process so leads come to you. And then deliver at such a high level that they become raving fans. And then you can rinse, lather, and repeat. To me, it seems really simple, and it seems like you’re just nailing it right now, Ian.

Ian: I appreciate the call, and I love your podcast. Thank you.

Glenn: Okay, I’ll talk to you soon, Ian. Thanks again.

Ian: Thanks, Glenn. Take care.

Glenn: Bye.

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